This episode features an interview with Sandy Grushow, CEO at Phase 2 Media, and none other than Aaron’s dad! Sandy discusses his journey through the corporate labyrinth, harnessing self-doubt as a fuel for success, navigating media’s digital revolution, and his advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
This episode features an interview with Sandy Grushow, CEO at Phase 2 Media. With an awe-inspiring career of over 25 years in entertainment media, Sandy's legacy includes roles such as the former President of Fox’s television network, former President of Fox’s television studio, and former Chairman of Fox Television Entertainment Group. And there's more – he's also none other than Aaron's dad!
In this episode, Aaron talks to Sandy about his journey through the corporate labyrinth, harnessing self-doubt as fuel for success, navigating media’s digital revolution, and his advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Guest Bio:
Sandy Grushow is one of a rare breed of senior entertainment executives who has successfully married his vast experience in traditional media with the explosive world of digital and social media and technology. After helping to build the Fox broadcast network from its earliest day, Grushow went on to achieve creative, financial, and strategic leadership success as chairman of the broadcast network as well as Fox's television studio, where his tenure saw the debut of the “American Idol” juggernaut along with major hits such as “24,” ”House,” ”Malcolm in the Middle,” and “The OC.”
Today, Grushow is the CEO of Phase 2 Media, a strategic and creative advisory practice. As CEO, Grushow applies his 25 years of experience running two entertainment businesses with revenues in excess of a billion dollars to guide Phase 2 Media in serving its clients’ strategic business and creative/content/marketing/branding needs.
Phase 2 Media’s advisory practice works primarily with early stage companies in the digital and social media and technology spaces, including social content and distribution, OTT content providers, data and analytics platforms, mobile and PC-based gaming, e-commerce, ad tech, and digital content creation. Companies currently engaged with Phase 2 Media’s advisory practice include Tubi (acquired), Shareability, Winston House, Monica & Andy, 3BlackDot (acquired), Tradesy, Pathmatics (acquired), DramaFever (acquired), Two Bit Circus, Plus Capital, Vody, Firework, Spree, Mutual Markets, Favored.live, eToro (Israel), Real Hype, Tomorrow (New Zealand), Byron Allen’s Entertainment Studios.
Grushow most recently served as a long-time board member for the industry's largest ad-supported streaming video service, Tubi (acquired by Fox) and The Weather Channel (acquired by Byron Allen’s Entertainment Studios). He currently serves as a board member for Monica & Andy, a digitally native vertical brand in the "Mom's" space and Ghostcast, an audio-focused social media platform.
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Guest Quote
“The key is to add value without being threatening. And I know you didn’t ask this question, but I think it’s one of the more valuable pieces of advice I could offer your audience. This isn’t just in the context of a corporate environment, this is in the context of being an entrepreneur or being a real estate agent. And that is, there’s nothing more important than aligning yourself with a great boss, somebody who’s willing to mentor you.” - Sandy Grushow
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Time Stamps:
* (00:01) Intro
* (00:33) Sandy’s career journey
* (02:55) From Intern to corporate leader
* (08:38) Ventures as a younger VP
* (10:16) Sandy’s career-defining mentors
* (12:43) The Princess Bride and discovering Sandy’s hidden talents
* (19:09) Overcoming rejection and self-doubt
* (21:12) Best Hollywood moments
* (25:05) Modern vs. traditional fame pathways
* (27:57) Navigating media’s digital revolution
* (32:56) Sandy’s role in Tubi TV
* (38:03) Advice for young entrepreneurs
* (40:13) Sandy’s inspirations
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Connect with Sandy Grushow:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-grushow-3479b212/
https://www.facebook.com/sandy.grushow/
Connect with Aaron:
https://www.tiktok.com/@aarongrushowhomes
https://www.linkedin.com/in/423/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_SSHGREChuBaU6u_USIIEg
https://www.instagram.com/aarongrushowhomes
https://aarongrushowhomes.com/
Follow Estate Media:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/estatemediaus/
Aaron Grushow: Today on the Standouts, we have the former President of Fox's Television Network, the former president of Fox's television studio, and the former chairman of Fox Television Entertainment Group, where he oversaw both the network and the studio. Today he's the CEO of Phase two Media, which is an advisory practice that oversees digital media startups in early stage companies, but most impressive.
Aaron Grushow: He's my father, Sandy Grushow. Awesome to have you on the show. You've clearly held a variety of, of titles and, and high level positions. Can we just get a brief synopsis of your, you know, career
Sandy Grushow: journey? Sure. Um, so I started, uh, as an intern at, uh, 20th Century Fox Film Corp. Uh, in their marketing.
Sandy Grushow: Uh, I wound up spending five years [00:01:00] in that, uh, division rising to vice president and oversaw the creation of, of trailers and television commercials and posters and print ads and radio spots, whatnot. Um, to date myself a little bit, I worked on the original Die Hard. I think they're up to what, like five or six now?
Sandy Grushow: Something like that. Um, and, uh, I, I then, uh, was asked to start the first. Proper marketing department at the Fox Network in 1988. Um, it was a year old at the time, uh, and, um, did that for a couple years. Uh, wound up being promoted to president of the network. Uh, did that for, uh, several years. Wound up, uh, then running Fox Television Studios.
Sandy Grushow: Um, uh, I don't know if your audience knows the difference, but, but the studio actually, um, produce shows for all the networks, um, and, [00:02:00] uh, um, not just Fox. Uh, and then I wound up being promoted and overseeing. Divisions, um, for a number of years. Uh, left there actually quite some time ago, um, uh, about a dozen years ago, and got really interested in, um, digital media and technology, um, which is something you, you, you didn't mention.
Sandy Grushow: Uh, and started advising lots of early stage companies, some later stage companies, uh, and sitting on corporate boards. Um, and, um, that's where I am today. Impressive. Thank you. Um, so it, it
Aaron Grushow: fed you? Yes, it did. Um, I'm thankful for all of that, but, uh, this show is all about standing out, doing things a bit differently.
Aaron Grushow: Um, as an intern, I'm curious how you stood out from the rest and sort of a, a corporate setting. You know, a lot of my guests are, are [00:03:00] entrepreneurs, but in, in a corporate sort of world. I'm just curious. You did set
Sandy Grushow: yourself apart. Yeah. Well, uh, obviously in, in a corporate world, um, You know, when you're young and just getting going, uh, the goal is to impress your superiors.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah, right. Uh, and uh, in the very beginning when you are not even clear about what your skills are, um, all you can really do is work incredibly hard. Uh, and be, you know what I was referred to as Johnny on the spot, uh, and. You know, some people may call it, uh, sucking up. Uh, I, I like to think it, it's more strategic than that, but, uh, you know, I'll give you an example.
Sandy Grushow: Three or four of the people that I worked for, [00:04:00] um, would occasionally, uh, be called into the chairman's office of the film company, uh, in another building, and it would happen after hours. Uh, and so they'd first get started at seven o'clock at night, and those meetings could run, you know, a couple of hours.
Sandy Grushow: So, uh, uh, my, uh, the person I reported directly to, um, would frequently call me. This was way before cell phones and texting. This was 1983. Uh, and he was a smoker. Um, uh, which in retrospect, Disgusting. But, um, he would run out of cigarettes and he'd want a pack of cigarettes. Uh, and so not only would I bring cigarettes, but I surmised that if they were sitting there that long, They were probably getting hungry.
Sandy Grushow: And so I would pull together, you know, five or [00:05:00] six, you know, candy bars, um, and I'd bring 'em all over, uh, uh, into the, into the room. Um, and a couple of things were happening in that moment. Number one, I was staying until nine o'clock at. And I wasn't getting paid by the hour. And number two, I was satisfying a need that they either didn't know they had or, uh, didn't bother expressing because it would've been too big of a hassle.
Sandy Grushow: Um, and, and so that just made an impression. Yeah. Right. Uh, and, and I'm just gotta be smart about stuff like that. And you gotta be willing to put in the time requires dedication. It requires sacrifice. Uh, and, um, y you know what that allowed me to do? It bought me time to actually identify, uh, the things that I were.
Sandy Grushow: I was good at, um, and, and I had no idea that I was creative. You know, unfortunately, at least [00:06:00] back then, college doesn't, um, necessarily, uh, uh, allow you to, um, uh, experiment and I, and identify where your strengths are that typically happens in the real world. Um, who knew that I was creative? Uh, and, and creative in that context.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and so, um, because I had worked so hard, um, I had a lot of goodwill. Um, I was, uh, uh, generating value for them even in the absence of, of having identified, um, my real talents and they could not have been more supportive along the way. Um, when I did start to evolve into somebody who could truly contribute to the business.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah, that's
Aaron Grushow: great. I mean, you rose up the [00:07:00] ranks pretty quickly. You became one of the youngest executives in the entertainment industry. Yeah, I'd
Sandy Grushow: say that a little bit differently. There are plenty of young executives Yeah. In the industry. I, I, I think, um, I moved up quickly and I, and I had some jobs that typically would go to people who were older, if not significantly older than I was.
Sandy Grushow: But yeah, I mean, when you're in the corporate world, it's, you know, you're an intern. Yeah. You're a manager, then you are a director, then you're an executive director, then you're a vice president. I mean, basically. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're doing a good job, you're, you're getting promoted every six months or, or whatever it is.
Sandy Grushow: Uh, and, and so, you know, by the time I was, I think 26, I was the vice president of creative advertising at 20th Century Fox Film Corp. You know, working on important [00:08:00] movies and, and, um, you know, it was, it was fun, but a little bit heady. Uh, and, um, you know, that again just came from hard work, uh, dedication, sacrifice.
Sandy Grushow: And, and serendipity. Mm-hmm. Right. Which I think is important in, in every career. And people don't talk about it enough. I was just very lucky that, that, um, I got an internship in an area where, where I had, you know, skills. Yeah. Uh, unbeknownst to me. Yeah.
Aaron Grushow: I mean, 26, that's pretty young, in my opinion, to be a vice president.
Aaron Grushow: Did you experience any. Down look upon you from the higher ups who may be jealous. Ageism
Sandy Grushow: not, not at all. As I said, they, people were rooting for me. That's awesome Because, um, you know, I, uh, [00:09:00] always made their jobs easier. Mm-hmm. You know, the, the key is to, to add value without being threatening. Um, and I know you didn't a ask this question, but, but I think it's one of the more valuable pieces of advice I could offer.
Sandy Grushow: Um, you know, your audience and, and this isn't just in the context of a corporate environment, this is in the context of being an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. Or, or, you know, being a real estate agent and that is, There's nothing more important than aligning yourself with a great boss. Yeah. Somebody who's willing to mentor you.
Sandy Grushow: Um, and most people are. Right. Most people aren't threatened. Mm-hmm. Um, they just won't do it if you're not adding value. Yeah. Right. If you're not somehow making [00:10:00] their lives easier. Mm-hmm. So it's incumbent upon you to figure out exactly, you know, the ways in which to do that. Yeah. At at which point they, they want to help you along.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. Um, A great boss is, is really, really
Aaron Grushow: key. Mm-hmm. Besides your boss, I'm just curious who else you draw Drew inspiration from, who you looked to for mentorship sort of in that space?
Sandy Grushow: You know, it really just came from the people I, I, I worked with. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I think for whatever reasons, right, um, And it, and it's somewhat inexplicable.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. I thought in very contrarian ways. Mm-hmm. Uh, and the company was being run ultimately by a guy named Barry Diller. Mm-hmm. Who, who, [00:11:00] you know, it's one of the greatest, um, media executives and owners in the history of, you know, the industry.
Sandy Grushow: You know, Barry really valued people who approach. Um, the business and, and I guess more specifically the creative process in, um, unique ways.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. His, his attitude was, and, and he would literally say it, that if people were in the, were in a job, was in a job, weren't a job for too long, they had what he called hardening of the categories. That meant that, um, they just weren't good anymore. Mm-hmm. Because they were just doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. And, and he placed a value on people who could actually bring a fresh perspective [00:12:00] to creative problem solving. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and that's what I did. You know, it just, it, it really kinda. You know, came out of my loins. Um, and, uh, um, it was somewhat, you know, unexpected, but, but really gratifying. Um, you know, I loved what I was doing.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Um, I loved creative problem solving and I loved the fact that I got to do it in a way, uh, where, where there was even more. For doing it differently? Yeah, for, for being unique. Uh, I'll give you one tangible example. I'm just gonna seem small, but, uh, stacked on top of one another. It, it's what led Barry Diller to ask me, ultimately to leave the movie company to start, as I say, the first proper marketing department at, at the [00:13:00] new network.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. We were, um, uh, releasing or we had released a movie called The Princess Bride, um, uh, which was directed by Rob Reiner. Mm-hmm. Wonderful picture. And at the time, and, and this is long before, I'm sure most of your uh, uh, audience was even born, um, you can imagine there was no internet, so you'd get a newspaper every morning.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And on Friday mornings, the newspaper would show up and it was always thick. Then every other day of the week, other than Sunday. Um, and, and in it, at least in LA there was something called the calendar section. Mm-hmm. And in the calendar section were were double truck ads, that means two pages, um, for 30 movies.
Sandy Grushow: And every single movie had, uh, uh, review. Quotes, many of them from the same reviewers. Mm-hmm. You know, uh, you know, [00:14:00] Vincent Canby, the New York Times, you know, David Anson, you know Newsweek, Richard Corless, time Magazine. I can't believe I remember these names. People are all dead. Um, but, uh, I was sitting there in a marketing meeting.
Sandy Grushow: Uh, with my superiors. Mm-hmm. And, and Barry would sit in on it on, on Monday mornings, we'd look at the, the grosses from the weekend and we'd decide on what week, the week two campaign would look like. Mm-hmm. You know, in terms of print, in terms of, you know, television. And, uh, my bosses were talking about like what quotes were gonna be in the week.
Sandy Grushow: Ad. Mm-hmm. And I don't remember the context in which I, I said this, um, but it was a little bit like the old EF Hutton commercial, you know, where where time stopped and it got [00:15:00] very quiet and everybody was listening. Um, cuz I, I said, you know, these quotes, they all kind of cancel each other out. First of all, it's like an eye test.
Sandy Grushow: You get a headache. Um, and, and why would a quote be valuable for your movie if, if basically the same reviewer is, is being quoted in, you know, 20 other campaigns? Mm-hmm. And I could see Barry looking at me. Um, To, to which he said, well, what do you suggest? Right? And he was a really intimidating guy. Um, and, and it really put me on the spot and I said, I don't know.
Sandy Grushow: Why don't we just say no quotes and do a headline using the key art that said, just ask anyone who's seen it. Hmm. And Barry, I remember took his hand, slammed the. [00:16:00] And said, do that, and picked himself up and walked out of the room and I was left with all of my superiors and they were looking at me like, basically what just happened, right?
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. And, and who's gonna call Rob Reiner the esteemed director of the Princess Bride, and tell him that his week two campaign is gonna have no reviews in it, talking about how wonderful the movie is. And actually, um, the good news is that, that Rob got it completely right. And so it was that type of zig when everybody else is zagging.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Right. That, that, um, allowed, uh, both myself and, and the things I was working on, um, to, to kind of land as, as being. As, as standing out. Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] Um, uh, and, and I did that enough times where Barry who, who was trying to launch. Uh, at the time, a fourth broadcast network. Again, most of your audience, um, wasn't born.
Sandy Grushow: You know, when, when the world, I, it's hard to believe, I mean, basically the world of video was three broadcast networks, abc, N B C, and cbs. Period. And there were some independent stations and, and what Barry and, and Rupert Murdoch, the owner of, of Fox wanted to do was create a fourth network to try to take on those three.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and so he asked me to come in and, and do the marketing for it. He believed that the way I approached, you know, sort of creative problem [00:18:00] solving. Um, would allow the network, um, you know, to to, to somehow, you know, find, um, find a way. Mm-hmm. And, and when I went in there, it had not found its way.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. It was decidedly failing. Um, and we managed to snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat. And, you know, look, I certainly don't take, um, uh, singular credit for that by a long shot. You know, there were dozens of, of people who were responsible. Mm-hmm. But, but, um, I think I, you know, along with Barry more than just about anybody, uh, um, Identified and then wound up expressing the, uh, alternative fox voice at the time.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. You know? Um, and, and so, um, [00:19:00] I dunno if that answered your question. I think so. You
Aaron Grushow: answered so long ago. No, that, that was awesome. It's, it's such a great story. I'm curious if you ever remember a circumstance when you were in an intimidating room and you made a suggestion that was immediately shut down, and if so, how did that make you feel?
Aaron Grushow: How'd you overcome? Maybe some self-doubt.
Sandy Grushow: I'm gonna answer the question differently. Okay. Cause I don't know that I remember one specific instance, but, um, you know, when you're young and you're just getting started out, if you're not filled with self-doubt, you're an idiot. Yeah. Right. It, it means you're, you know, you're arrogant, um, and you think you know it all.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And you are gonna be jettison from whatever organization you're in, like a body rejects a new organ. Right. Um, [00:20:00] and, and so, uh, I, I, I think, um, you gotta prepare, um, not just for feeling self-doubt. When you're young and just getting going, but throughout your entire career. Mm-hmm. Right. Self-doubt.
Sandy Grushow: Another way to say it is fear fueled me. Mm-hmm. Along with passion, right? So if you're sitting there and you know, um, you, you, you feel an enormous amount of an anxiety. You know, desperate to, to, to, to get it right, to succeed. But at the same time, you know, you love the process. Mm-hmm. Right. And, you know, you're being rewarded for doing things differently.
Sandy Grushow: It, it's, it's sort of a unique cocktail. Yeah. Um, uh, that that's a, [00:21:00] that's positive, not, not negative. Yeah. So embrace yourself. Yeah,
Aaron Grushow: I think that's really good advice. Um, switching gears a little bit, my audience loves to hear about Hollywood celebrities. Do you have any moments that stand out to you in regards to dealing with, you know, some of the stars on your shows?
Aaron Grushow: Any favorite shows that you worked on?
Sandy Grushow: Um, you know, I, I think that. There are a handful of shows in the history of the medium that, um, you know, really changed the game single-handedly. Yeah. And, and the one, you know, I actually had the privilege of working on, as it turns out, a couple of those first launching The Simpsons.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Right. As the marketing guy. I didn't [00:22:00] create The Simpsons, I just launched it, which, Job and a half. Right. Um, and, and there were no stars. The stars were really the creators. Yeah. Right. Um, uh, so a guy like James L. Brooks who worked on classic television shows and amazing movies. Mm-hmm. Uh, and Matt Graining, you know, obviously collaborated to, you know, bring that to life.
Sandy Grushow: Um, uh, worked on, launched American. Yeah. Right. And, and you know, sort of saw a clip from the show, which was called Pop Vinyl in the uk and, and saw, uh, an acerbic British judge. Mm-hmm. And said, that's the guy, right. If we're gonna buy this [00:23:00] show, um, he needs to be a part. Because it wasn't entirely clear that, that he was going to come across the pond.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And in fact, the other two hosts were not a part of the British show. Mm-hmm. Right. Paul Abdul and whatnot. Um, and, and so, you know, That was kind of an amazing journey. The industry, the show became known as The Death Star cuz it would destroy everything in its wake. Mm-hmm. And you know, that just doesn't happen very often in television.
Sandy Grushow: So I, you know, I worked with lots of cool people because at the time Fox was trying to speak to a younger audience. Yeah. And so anybody that was young and up and coming in the business, Wound up being on a Fox show. Some successful, some not successful. Mm-hmm. Johnny Depp was on 21 Jump. Um, Brad [00:24:00] Pitt was on a show called The Outsiders, you know, all the way to a series called In Living Color that, you know, Jim Carey was, mm-hmm.
Sandy Grushow: Was, was, uh, on and Jamie Fox and, you know, sort of the list. Jennifer Anderson was on a sketch show. The list goes on and on. Yeah. They were all. Yeah. Um, and some of them succeeded in a big way on Fox at the time. A lot of them failed, but ultimately then went on to achieve success later on in their career in some other vehicle, be it film or television for some other network.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. So, you know, I, I was lucky that I got to work. You know, an enormous number of, of very talented people. Um, and, and typically at the beginning of, of their careers, which made complete sense because I was so early on in my
Aaron Grushow: own. Yeah. Very cool. How do you feel about [00:25:00] today's stars emerging from social media as content creators versus, you know, traditional Hollywood actors?
Aaron Grushow: Is it easier than ever to reach that
Sandy Grushow: stardom? Yeah, look, I, you know, I don't want to sound like one of those old, grumpy grouchy. You know, Hollywood executives who look down their nose at, at, at people who, um, are often described as as having no talent. Yeah. Um, but, but you know, tens of millions of followers, um, I think, you know, more power to, um, creators who are able to, um, Accrue, you know, a huge following for whatever reasons.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Right. Um, I, I think it, it, it runs counter to, to some degree, to, to, to [00:26:00] advice that I would offer young people. Yeah. Which is find something that you're great at. Right. Um, and, and ride that horse. But one could argue that, um, even if somebody doesn't have perceptible talent, they can't act, they can't sing, they can't dance, they're not funny, but, but yet they still have tens of millions of people, um, uh, listening to, you know, every word they have to say.
Sandy Grushow: That's its own form of talent. Right, right. And, and. Uh, they are able to leverage that. Mm-hmm. Right through, um, you know, ad revenue, you know, subscription revenue, you know, merchandise, whatever it may be. You know, good, good for them. Yeah. And room for everybody to succeed and, you know, it's the beauty of [00:27:00] of, of the digital world.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. I mean, in, in the old analog. Um, there, there were very few distribution platforms. Mm-hmm. There were, there were so many choke holds. Right. Um, that you, you, there was no way to achieve popularity, you know, unless you were in a successful movie or a successful television show today. Um, everybody has access to the pipes.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. You know, the, the, the issue is like, what do you do with them? Right. Um, and, and you know, even if you, you are able to get people to pay attention, you know, can you monetize that? Yeah.
Aaron Grushow: You've done an awesome job at. Taking your knowledge of traditional media and sort of shifting to the newer digital age, I feel like there's a lot of people who have struggled to do that. How have you been [00:28:00] able to, to navigate that transition?
Sandy Grushow: It, it's a really good question. Uh, I think it, it's sort of a combination of curiosity.
Sandy Grushow: Mm. Right. Um, cuz I, I felt like I had done pretty much everything you can do in the world of television. Yeah. Um, and, and I was really looking for, you know, um, a new challenge. Yeah. And, um, also, uh, an interesting combination. Um, and I don't know if I'm gonna be able to express this very well. On the one hand, you, you need to leverage your reputation and your skills.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And so there were a lot of people down in Silicon Beach, up in Silicon Valley that, um, had a great [00:29:00] respect for what I had accomplished. Yeah. But at the same time, I was ready, uh, willing and. To, you know, take off my chairman of Fox Television Entertainment Group stripes, roll up my sleeves and learn.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. So, um, I think you have to, um, I, I don't think anybody is devoid of ego, but you gotta sort of say like, this is new territory for me. Um, before. You know, I start spouting off, you know, ideas. Mm-hmm. Um, as if I'm some kind of expert I gotta learn. Yeah. And, and so I took the time to get an education.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. Uh, and, and as it turned out, and [00:30:00] again, you know, serendipity, I didn't know whether or not my skills mm-hmm. That I had develop. Um, in my twenties and thirties and first half of my forties would, would translate to Yeah. You know, to this new world. And, and in fact, I had to learn y you know, how to best use my time in translating them.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Um, I remember as you might, you know, in, in the early days, I don't even remember how many advisory boards I found myself on. If somebody was standing on a street corner and said, you want to be on my advisory board? I'd say yes. Um, in retrospect, it was silly, right? I was viewing it, it was flattering.
Sandy Grushow: And, and I, you know, I just sort of thought, well, there's another notch, you know, on, on, on the belt, [00:31:00] but you know, it's because I didn't have a model. Mm-hmm. Right? So I had to develop a model, um, uh, a lens through which I could assess whether or not a company. Was worthy of my time or not. Yeah. And, and, and whether or not it was worthy of their time.
Sandy Grushow: And I can't tell you how many times I've said to young entrepreneurs, don't give me equity, cuz I'm not sure I really believe in what you're doing. Hmm. Right. I don't want, you know, a piece of your company unless I know I can be helpful. Yeah. Um, and so the model is actually pretty. Um, one is, do you know I like the founder or the ceo?
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Um, the second is, do I believe in the idea? Mm-hmm. Do I believe the business has a chance to succeed? Is there some kind of reson [00:32:00] detra or, you know, is it, is it just an idea that's in search of a market? Mm. Um, and the third, which is in some ways the most important, you know, do I believe I can help?
Sandy Grushow: Right? Um, can I help push the boulder up the side of the mountain with the bridge of my nose? Mm-hmm. Which is kind of the way these things get built. And, and if all three of those boxes get checked, then it's a, a, a, a company that makes sense for me to be associated with. If one or more of those boxes are not checked, then I ought not, um, be associated with that either is a board member, um, as an advisory board member.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. As, you know, just a straight advisor. So, um, you know, I think it's important. To really hone in on, on your own model. Mm-hmm.
Aaron Grushow: Can you share some of your [00:33:00] success stories with any of these early stage companies?
Sandy Grushow: Uh, you know, probably the, the biggest. Success story of, of, for me in the past decade, which fortunately turns out to be one of the biggest success stories in, in Hollywood of, of the past decade, was getting involved with, um, a streaming video service.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Called two B, um, which was acquired a couple years ago by Fox. Uh, and again, you know, you sort of look for that thread in, in, in your career. Yeah. In the same way the Fox network was very, and I haven't used this word, um, and it's an important word, disruptive. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and contrarian, uh, in the way it, it went at the three existing networks.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. Um, [00:34:00] Tubi was also disruptive and contrarian in its own way because when it was first getting started, A decade ago. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, subscription services were all the rage. Yeah. Right. Everybody, all the smart money in Silicon Valley and Hollywood were betting on the subscription model. If you had a library of content, people were gonna pay you for the privilege of, of streaming that content.
Sandy Grushow: I met. Founder and ceo, a gentleman named Farhad Masui, who was an ad tech guy from Silicon Valley. Mm-hmm. That knew virtually nothing in nobody in Hollywood. Um, and he had a point of view, uh, which actually aligned with mine, which was that eventually there was gonna need to be a seat at the streaming table, streaming [00:35:00] video table for Madison.
Sandy Grushow: Right. Um, which at the time again, people were like, no, this is all about subscription revenue. This is not about ad revenue. Yeah. Um, and, and we were right. And now you look at, at what's happening in the industry, even Netflix is taking, you know, advertising. Um, and, and so, um, that was a, a pretty special journey where I was far HODs advisor.
Sandy Grushow: He wanted me. In the beginning to take an operational role, but I told him that I was allergic to operational roles after 25 years at Fox. But I said I'd be happy to be an advisor and I'd be happy to be, you know what? I called your Hollywood whisperer because he really didn't know a lot about the business and about, and know the people [00:36:00] down here.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And ultimately then became a board. Um, for a number of years. Uh, and then again, we sold it to Fox, which was incredibly ironic for me personally. Um, because Tobi was actually disrupting a business that I helped to build from, you know, the very early days, which was the. Network. Um, and that's when you know, you've been around for a while when you start disrupting the businesses you helped build.
Sandy Grushow: Um, and so that was kind of a hoot. Uh, and, and obviously, you know, um, it was acquired for close to a half a billion dollars and, you know, everybody did really nicely. Nobody more so than Farhad, and he completely deserves it. Um, and News Corp was smart enough. Fox was smart enough to do something that they [00:37:00] typically didn't do.
Sandy Grushow: There's a certain arrogance. That exists in Hollywood where everybody thinks they know better. Yeah. So typically a company like Fox would acquire two btv and say to Farhad, here's your money. Thank you very much. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. You know? And install some genius, right. Who, who works inside the company.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. And it never works. It's, it's doomed to failure. Yeah. And in this particular case, they were smart enough to say, no, Farhad, you're gonna captain this ship that you helped to build. And it was an incredibly, you know, smart decision on their part. Um, uh, because, you know, not even arguably it, it is more valuable than the Fox broadcast company today.
Sandy Grushow: Mm-hmm. And it's, and it's the. [00:38:00] Yeah.
Aaron Grushow: Major success. Yep. What, uh, advice would you give young entrepreneurs who are looking to stand out or disrupt, as you said, the digital space or just
Sandy Grushow: in general? Well, that's a good question. Um, I think the place you need to start and, and people tend to miss this. And I actually encourage them to not miss it, which is you can't disrupt a business that you don't understand.
Sandy Grushow: Yeah. At its foundation. Right. And I've met so many entrepreneurs who, you know, whose product is intended to disrupt a business. Uh, and when I start to talk to them about that business, It's clear to me they don't really understand it. [00:39:00] Mm-hmm. And that is a huge mistake. So I think there's tremendous value for, for people, even if you believe that you're an entrepreneur, that you're not gonna spend 25 years of your life working inside a corporate environment.
Sandy Grushow: Go work inside a corporate environment, in, in an industry that interests you. Learn how it works for a couple of years, identify where the opportunities may lie in terms of, of doing it differently, doing it more efficiently, doing it better, and then go build your company. Yeah. Um, uh, so. That may sound like a strange piece of, of advice, but, but I've seen a lot of failure, um, uh, you know, based on, on [00:40:00] people thinking that, uh, they, they know or they believe they can do something different or better, and they don't even know what they're trying to top.
Sandy Grushow: That's not a good way to go into, you know, launching a company. Yeah. I think
Aaron Grushow: that's excellent advice. I'd love to finish off by asking you, who
Sandy Grushow: are your standouts? I thought you were gonna ask me for money.
Aaron Grushow: That's after. But whether they're in the business, outside of the business, who do you look at today and, and admire and say to yourself, they're, they're doing something differently.
Aaron Grushow: They're standing out, and I
Sandy Grushow: appreciate. Uh, God, you know, we can sit here for hours. So I think it's best for me to just look at, at the industries that, that I've spent my time in. Yeah. And there are two guys in particular who, [00:41:00] um, are just a cut above everybody else, and I don't even belong in the same sentence as them.
Sandy Grushow: And, and, and in. I'm not mentioned in the same sentence as them. Um, which is perfectly fair. One of them is Barry Diller, who is the first to, to essentially walk away from traditional media. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and take a swing at, at digital media, and now owns a company called iac. Um, and the other is, A guy who was actually my direct boss for a long, long time, and that's a guy named Peter Churnin, um, who also, now he actually hasn't completely walked away from traditional media.
Sandy Grushow: He still has. Uh, a film division and a television division, but his real focus is on [00:42:00] building businesses that are again, you know, disruptive in nature. Um, uh, uh, it can be considered, you know, digital. Mm-hmm. Or, or technology, you know, driven companies. Left brain, right brain to the smartest guys I've ever had the privilege of, of, you know, sitting in a room with and, and, um, you know, the thing that, that I get to take with me is, is knowing that both of them really respected me and valued me for, for what I brought.
Sandy Grushow: To the game Yeah. That they were in. And, and Peter Churnin once said, I'll never forget it, to Rupert Murdoch, um, who didn't really know me. Um, uh, it's complicated, but, [00:43:00] but he wasn't actually running the company on a day-to-day basis. Yeah. That was, that was Barry Diller. So he didn't get to know me and, and question my creativity at a time when.
Sandy Grushow: Peter was being asked to go run the movie company. Mm-hmm. And, and they had to find head of the network. Uh, and, and Peter said to Rupert Sandy, in many ways is more creative than I am, which you know, is. Honor. Yeah. Uh, and, and that's how I became, you know, president of the network at, at 32, you know, years of age.
Sandy Grushow: But, um, those are, those are two unbelievably impressive guys. And, and look, there's, there's a lot of people out there, you know, to emulate in every industry, um, in including real estate. Uh, and, [00:44:00] you know, you, you just gotta. You just gotta, I think, identify, um, people who stand for you, know what you feel is righteous.
Sandy Grushow: And if you're really lucky, really, really unbelievably lucky, um, you get to make them, your mentors love it.
Aaron Grushow: These were awesome stories, some of which I've never heard before. So it was fun listening to extremely insightful. Dad, thanks so much for being on the show.
Sandy Grushow: It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.